IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF ARIZONA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF MARICOPA

Reverend Steven M. Kamp, et. al., plaintiffs vs. James Heneghen, et. al., Defendents. NO. CV 87-90077 SE

Depositon of Steven Michael Kamp--Phoenix, Arizona/February 16, 1987

Question: On that day you were ordained by Dr. Duran--who was present? Answer: Pretty much most of the members of the church. I don't know if you want me to list them name by name. James was there. Elliot was there.

Question: And what actually happened at this? Did Trina become Dr. Duran, in effect?

Answer: She trances. The word is she trances, and she leaves her body, and Dr. Duran comes through and does his thing.

Question: And when she's in that state, Dr. Duran speaks?

Answer: Yes.

Question: And it was under those circumstances that Dr. Duran informed you that you could call yourself a Reverend?

Answer: Yes.

Question: At any rate, when I think of being ordained, I think of someone having a document that is signed by someone that says you are ordained.

Answer: I think we have that. My wife's a minister in the University of Life Church, even though we were under their auspices, but we changed the name of the church. But her ordination comes from that place.

Question: Does the church file a tax return?

Answer: I think so. I don't know. My son handles that aspect of it.

Question: Which son is that?

Answer: William Kamp. I file personal income tax forms, and then my other businesses.

Question: Can you just describe those other businesses for me.

Answer: Trance International.

Question: Now, is that a corporation?

Answer: It's a partnership.

Question: And who are the other partners in that?

Answer: My wife Steve Rensch and myself.

Question: And what is the nature of the business conducted by Trance International?

Answer: I don't know. Best described as -- how would you best describe it? A spiritual teaching, seminars, marriage and family counseling.

Question: Well, I can't talk to [Dr. Duran].

Answer: You could. Can't is not the right word.

Question: What else?

Answer: It would cost you 250 bucks.

Question: What else?

Answer: I don't know. What else&It teaches you to overcome the ego and mind.

Question: And as I understand it, part of what comes from all this knowledge is some kind of a six month program?

Answer: That was Trance International. That's not the church. It's mine and my wife's personal seminar program which when people come to the community, people come invited and they pay us for the program, yes, they do.

Question: Has anyone ever started off as a customer of Trance International and then sort of been converted or otherwise into the church?

Answer: I don't like your terminology, but, yes.

Question: They started off in Trance International and got to know Dr. Duran and joined the church?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Would you say that the Church of Immortal Consciousness is a system for religious worship?

Answer: What do you mean by "system"?

Question: Well, I don't know you tell me. I'm just asking you, if I were trying to capsulize what this thing is.

Answer: If somebody asks me I wouldn't use those words.

Question: Why not?

Answer: Because I don't feel that it's a formal thing as people think of churches, not yet anyway.

Question: Is it religious?

Answer: No.

Question: So you don't consider the Church of Immortal Consciousness to exhibit any kind of a religion?

Answer: In my understanding I wouldn't call it a religion.

Question: Would Dr. Duran call it a religion?

Answer: No.

Question: He doesn't consider those who follow him religious followers?

Answer: No.

Question: When was he alive again?

Answer: 1300s, in England.